Curse

Swahnee · Aug 09, 2010, 09:28 AM // 09:28

I've searched the forums for understanding in detail what the quarter-stepping tecnique is useful for, but i've come up with nothing yet. I've seen how to swap weapons in the middle of attacks without losing attack speed, just clicking on the ground between attacks, but i've read different times on the forums that people do this (change position by little steps while attacking) not only to swap weapons, and i've been wondering why i would want to do this.

My guess, reading this old (but related to basics, so still useful imho) thread

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...tml?t=10327481

is that you would quarter-step your opponent (for example while he's kd'ed, but not only), so to position yourself at his side (instead, for example, at his back), to have a better chance landing a bull's or a crit if he tries to kite.

So what am i missing about q-stepping? Have you got some tips on how to improve myself with this playstyle (which kind of exercises, or what to do/look at when i play random PvP)?

Thank you a lot guys

kedde · Aug 09, 2010, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Basically you got it.
Its pretty simple. You get to spend free time positioning yourself better compared to your target and the rest of his team while he'll have to spend actual time on moving away in the proper direction.

You can get more hits in than you would otherwise, you may or may not be able to score more critical hits, and most importantly, you can help control the movement of your opponents.

*lemming* · Aug 09, 2010, 10:14 AM // 10:14

When done properly, you're

a. moving between your target and the way he wants to kite, which makes kiting for him harder and increases the amount of hits you get
b. moving closer to your next suitable target, which increases your dps time

Chiizu says it better, but I'm too dumb to find his post.

Jade Zephyr · Aug 09, 2010, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quarterstepping is hardly gamebreaking and I would suggest you practise on core warrior skills and master them fully before bothering with qstepping. It will make you a much better warrior.

Swahnee · Aug 09, 2010, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

When done properly, you're

a. moving between your target and the way he wants to kite, which makes kiting for him harder and increases the amount of hits you get
b. moving closer to your next suitable target, which increases your dps time

Chiizu says it better, but I'm too dumb to find his post.

Yap, i've got that thread, i'm going to reread all the infos accumulated (which will take me a bit i suppose).

So, regarding the a. point, that means to put myself between my opponent and his mid/backline, if he's for example a monk who came up to heal a overextended warrior, or, say, a water ele who is pushing a flag runner, or to put myself between my opponent and my mid/backline if he's a warrior wanting to chase my teammates (and i'm linebacking), right?

Any tips on how to improve? Did you learn it by simply going on practicing?

EDIT: @Jade Zephyr. You're right, actually i'm having a hard time thinking about q-stepping on top of all the other things i have to think about while i'm still learning, but you know, from time to time, if i can, i will try to manage also this thing. I think it's like the monk's weapon swapping: if you don't know how to do it, trying to do it, say, in RA will screw you up, but you have to start practicing somewhere (i've done it in PvE for example).

poppu16 · Aug 09, 2010, 01:04 PM // 13:04

just found this old post in order to help you :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/c...t10329626.html

good reading :P

Swahnee · Aug 09, 2010, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppu16

just found this old post in order to help you :
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/c...t10329626.html

good reading :P

Thank you A LOT for this link, it's a good addition to the original Chizu thread, expecially for the videos i've found inside it

Reverend Dr · Aug 09, 2010, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Check the connection you have to guild wars. Sometime in mid '07 my ping creeped up to the 250-350 area and I haven't reliably been able to q-step since then.

Q stepping is a core warrior skill. If you already click to move (click to move is a core gw pvp skill), then it is really simple to do. If you can Q step then landing bulls gets so much easier and landing bulls is absolutely a core warrior skill.

Quick quiz: How many people know how to prevent someone from Q stepping around you?

jonnieboi05 · Aug 09, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Quick quiz: How many people know how to prevent someone from Q stepping around you?

Traverse to the opposite direction from where they're positioning themselves? That or, pre-guardian your self (which you should be doing if a bulky Warrior is obnoxiously making his way to you; and if you're a Monk). -_-

What's your particular answer on this? I see different scenarios and/or answers in my head.

Swahnee · Aug 09, 2010, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Check the connection you have to guild wars. Sometime in mid '07 my ping creeped up to the 250-350 area and I haven't reliably been able to q-step since then.

Yes, i'm trying now to make practice and i've seen that when the ping grows up, it becomes really frustrating trying to be so precise.

Quote:

Q stepping is a core warrior skill. If you already click to move (click to move is a core gw pvp skill), then it is really simple to do. If you can Q step then landing bulls gets so much easier and landing bulls is absolutely a core warrior skill.

I click to move since when i've started playing GW, so i'm lucky from this point of view

Quote:

Quick quiz: How many people know how to prevent someone from Q stepping around you?

? Don't know. Maybe you have to guess where they want to go?

Corporeal Ghost · Aug 09, 2010, 11:06 PM // 23:06

You're pretty much spot-on, as has been said. But with the direction the game has gone, most of those things are no longer useful outside of corner cases. Repositioning for slightly higher DPS or a few more criticals a match really doesn't make a difference unless you're pressuring the other team out.

It does make Bull's somewhat easier to land, although honestly I've never been sure if it's the extra movement or that most people are figuring out how to Bull's better around the time they learn how to do this. In any case, it's still largely wasted effort unless your build and team is going to be able to capitalize on it, which is what I'd recommend getting better at first.

The only place I can think of that most guilds will find a use for this regularly is pushing flaggers. You get a ton of value of of staying in front of them.

Of course, if you're in one of the three remaining guilds that likes to offensively split warriors or play an actual pressure build, more power to you.

Edit: Just realized you said something about Random Arena. It's certainly possible to play a pressure-oriented style there, but it's pretty much a crapshoot as to whether your team will be able to augment you at all and how much mitigation their team has. I'd recommend you work on target selection and swapping before anything this esoteric.

Tearz1993 · Aug 10, 2010, 07:44 AM // 07:44

the only reason learning how to quarter step early on would be a good idea is target selection. as others said, if you are quarter stepping with the intent of getting closer to another target, this mentality will probably help you improve quickly as a warrior, or even just as a player through target selection.

Swahnee · Aug 10, 2010, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corporeal Ghost

Edit: Just realized you said something about Random Arena. It's certainly possible to play a pressure-oriented style there, but it's pretty much a crapshoot as to whether your team will be able to augment you at all and how much mitigation their team has. I'd recommend you work on target selection and swapping before anything this esoteric.

Yes, i fully agree, i wouldn't try these kind of techniques in RA to have an actual advantage, but only to make practice when i can (and i assure you that the cases when i can think about such things are very rare

). Target swapping is something i am actually working on right now, understanding when the target gets mitigated by enchants/stances, and swapping quickly, or trying to understand when teammates are pressured, and lineback them.

Since we fell into this argument, let's say i'm starting off a new RA match (just to keep the case simple). I mostly play a Dev Hammer - KD locker W/E build, so i start spearing the nearest target to build up adrenaline. While i spear around i watch opponents, and i have to choose the target.

It can be a squishie (not the monk to avoid Balanced/Dolyak, or maybe i could fake an attack to him and then swap suddenly) or often i try to catch early on a frontliner who is clearly going to gank my monk or my mesmer. Does this make sense, or i should be doing damage first, and worring about linebacking later, when the pressure has grown up? (1)

After choosing the target i usually start my kd chain: dev-crush-prot-bash-autoattack-prot-shock is usually what i try to do. Against the master of enchanting in the isle of the nameless i can quarter-knock his 1/4 cast spells (RoF, PnH) with bash fairly often (well, often from my point of view

, say 1 time out of 3 or 4) so the chain dev-crush-prot seems ideal to have hammer bash hitting him when he's just got up.

Then i read on this thread

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...tml?t=10409297

that i could try to quarter step after the first chain dev-crush-prot. I think that this may be useful also because after the first spike, if there is a monk, it's likely that some prot is incoming. In this case when do you start worring about what could be the next target? Do you watch around the field while unloading the three skills (so clicking 1-2-3 without watching the target, but watching around) and then check if your actual target has been protted? So, you could unload the spike, then quarter-step in the direction of your next target (that you chose while spiking) and then check if your actual target has become protted/is in stance, if no go on with the quarter-knock, if yes swap to the other target. Right? Or do you make a list of suitable targets before starting to attack the first, so to be able to watch him carefully to recognize stances/prot animations? (2)

If you have to swap target after the first spike, do you bash the new target, losing adrenaline, or is it better to swap to the spear, rebuild adrenaline, and only then charge the new target and spike him down? As a warrior, i should worry about doing the max unmitigated damage possible, so this last choise seems better. (3)

Another one, do you zoom the camera when you play, and in particular when you try to quarter-step, to be more precise in clicking the ground? Do you ever use a zoom different from the minimum (that which allows you to see the biggest part of the field) to better distinguish the players in the crowd or are you fine playing with the zoom at minimum?(4)

Don't blame me for trying to exploiting you GWGuru guys :P

Bob_ftw · Aug 10, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36

stop using spear and actually hit things.

Tearz1993 · Aug 10, 2010, 06:27 PM // 18:27

there isn't any realistic situation where you would want to zoom in. always stay at the view furthest away from your character.

Swahnee · Aug 10, 2010, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob_ftw

stop using spear and actually hit things.

So it's better to use the spear only at the beginning, and then build up adrenaline between spikes attacking in melee range? Well, if i'm snared or stuck in flail i think it would be better to build adrenaline from range w/ a spear instead of waiting ages to come near a target (who is also likely to kite).

Vecte · Aug 10, 2010, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

So it's better to use the spear only at the beginning, and then build up adrenaline between spikes attacking in melee range? Well, if i'm snared or stuck in flail i think it would be better to build adrenaline from range w/ a spear instead of waiting ages to come near a target (who is also likely to kite).

After the initial adrenal build with the spear, I typically stay using the Hammer to keep pressure up. However, if I get crippled, I switch to the Spear and Shield. My main shield reduces cripple, plus it let's me keep adrenaline up.

Also, you shouldn't be getting stuck in Flail, if you are, you are doing it wrong. Unless you are doing it for the lolz, you should really only have to use Flail during a spike, then immediately IMS with Enraging Charge, or whatever you prefer for that skill. If you like to keep running the whole match, use Rush instead of Enraging charge, so you don't have to worry about the CD.

As far as Q-Stepping, honestly, it really depends on what type of PvP you do. If you are doing HoH, or high-End GvG, I'd say it's a highly useful in those scenarios, because you are going to be playing against those of equal or better skill level, and tactics such as Q-Stepping and Q-Knocking are highly useful, if not required. If you are just doing casual PvP such as RA, AB, CM, and even low-end GvG, neither of these skills are highly critical.

I personally learned how to perform both on my warrior, and use to use them frequently. However, due to my current casual style of PvP, as well as general laziness, I don't bother Q-Stepping at all, and I've switched to Yeti Smash for the simple Q-Knock. Honestly though, I haven't ran into enough players where a Q-Knock was required to stop them. I sometimes think that other players just wait for the Knock-Lock to be over, before even attempting to do anything, at least, that's what it seems like these days.

MaaKotka · Aug 11, 2010, 10:21 AM // 10:21

If you only do mostly: build adren with spear -> unload -> repeat, you do two things: 1 you make your spikes extremely easily protted and you don't pressure in between spikes.

When playing warrior you should be swinging your main weapon as much as humanly possible. That way you will make pressure in between spikes and you will make protting harder. You should be throwing spears only when swinging your main weapon isn't possible. Also when throwing spears you should be q-stepping to reduce time running.

One more important thing. Don't q-step for the sake of q-stepping. Q-step because of some goal you are trying to achieve by q-stepping. Do it to position yourself closer to your next target, to make your current target's kiting less effective, to make your target to kite to direction you want, to land bulls or to whatever reason that makes you more effective in doing damage. Also if you already are in a position you want to be you shouldn't to q-step.

Swahnee · Aug 11, 2010, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Ok so i will start to pressure more with autoattacks (well, i knew axe warriors make pressure with autoattacks in frenzy, why didn't i think about it for hammer warriors too?

).

For the q-stepping thing, as i said, for now i'm trying to learn how to do it. I agree that in the casual PvP that i do now it isn't needed, nor is it so much useful, but i have to start somewhere.

Quote:

You should be throwing spears only when swinging your main weapon isn't possible. Also when throwing spears you should be q-stepping to reduce time running.

Good advice^^, it also seems a good way to practice q-stepping, since i still find thinking about q-stepping in the middle of a spike a little difficult to do.

Quote:

Also, you shouldn't be getting stuck in Flail, if you are, you are doing it wrong. Unless you are doing it for the lolz, you should really only have to use Flail during a spike, then immediately IMS with Enraging Charge, or whatever you prefer for that skill. If you like to keep running the whole match, use Rush instead of Enraging charge, so you don't have to worry about the CD.

Quote:

If you only do mostly: build adren with spear -> unload -> repeat, you do two things: 1 you make your spikes extremely easily protted and you don't pressure in between spikes.

Yes, i think i've been doing this actual mistake. I usually used enraging charge only to build Dev faster, so i was often stuck in flail after the spike, because ECharge wasn't still recharged. Better to keep ECharge only for the initial adrenaline building, and then using it to chase kiting opponents or to cancel flail. I have also to try rush, which is easier to get and doesn't require energy.

I've tried also to use yeti smash, which has a worse condition, but faster activation time, but i had some issue with the timing (or, more likely, i haven't practiced enough

). I've seen on obs a warrior using bodyblow-yeti smash instead of prot-bash, so gaining some activation time on the first, and losing it on the second should still allow me to hit the second kd when the foe is just got up. What do you think about it?

When do you swap (if you swap) to a zealous hammer? Up to now i didn't see the necessity of using it, if i'm low on energy, i simply wait for it to rise, but it seems not very efficient, because i have to give up to use shock or bull's when there would be the chance of doing it. And when i should use a furious hammer?

MaaKotka · Aug 11, 2010, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

For the q-stepping thing, as i said, for now i'm trying to learn how to do it. I agree that in the casual PvP that i do now it isn't needed, nor is it so much useful, but i have to start somewhere.

Good advice^^, it also seems a good way to practice q-stepping, since i still find thinking about q-stepping in the middle of a spike a little difficult to do.

If you want you can learn to q-step while playing casters too when wanding. I do that sometimes when monking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

Yes, i think i've been doing this actual mistake. I usually used enraging charge only to build Dev faster, so i was often stuck in flail after the spike, because ECharge wasn't still recharged. Better to keep ECharge only for the initial adrenaline building, and then using it to chase kiting opponents or to cancel flail. I have also to try rush, which is easier to get and doesn't require energy.

Sometimes you will get stuck to flail. Sometimes it is good to build adrenaline -> unload -> quick build with enraging -> unload again. You just have to make sure that you wont get stuck to flail in the middle of nowhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

I've tried also to use yeti smash, which has a worse condition, but faster activation time, but i had some issue with the timing (or, more likely, i haven't practiced enough

). I've seen on obs a warrior using bodyblow-yeti smash instead of prot-bash, so gaining some activation time on the first, and losing it on the second should still allow me to hit the second kd when the foe is just got up. What do you think about it?

I like bash more, because it is unconditional kd and you can use it to whatever target you like when nice opportunity presents itself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swahnee

When do you swap (if you swap) to a zealous hammer? Up to now i didn't see the necessity of using it, if i'm low on energy, i simply wait for it to rise, but it seems not very efficient, because i have to give up to use shock or bull's when there would be the chance of doing it. And when i should use a furious hammer?

I swap to zealous when I'm getting low on energy. I like to have 5-10 energy available all the time so I can use skills when there is good opportunity to do so. Your normal regen isn't enough to use skills effectively, it is enough to use skills only on spikes, but doing "minispikes" with prot strike/bulls is good to make monks to use their precious skills, energy and time.

I don't use furious hammer, but someone better warrior could tell their opinion on furious hammer.